You've undoubtedly seen flame wars, if no where else you've seen them in the comments sections of YouTube videos. You know where all that emotion comes from? People tend to perceive slights against what they like as insults directed at themselves. What do you mean hockey sucks?! I like hockey, that means you think I suck! *rage rage* Conversely, the reward centers of the brain light up when someone agrees with us. That is to say, when you read an article praising a show you happen to love you feel good, you bask in the reflected glory.
These feelings come to me, too. When I read some reviews saying The Departed had better pacing, I felt anger. When I read someone's comment saying The Departed was a mess, I felt that wave of pleasure. I'm not special because I'm immune to those tendencies, I am special because I am aware of them and act accordingly.
As I said, I read a lot of reviews going both ways about both films and I've come to believe that a lot of viewers just missed a lot when they saw Infernal Affairs, even the ones who prefer it to The Departed! I think it's safe to say most aren't Cantonese speakers, native or otherwise. It isn't something they have to apologize for, not at all, but it is something to factor into consideration.
As a native Chinese (Cantonese even!) speaker and a native English speaker I am in a particular position to be able to judge both films equally. You might immediately think this arrogant of me but I urge you to think about it. Do you really think that you experienced the film as smoothly as I did if you utilized the subtitles while I didn't? I don't say this with a high-brow attitude, sincerely. I don't believe it impossible for non-Chinese speakers to enjoy this film, to understand the film, as you can clearly see from the worldwide fan-base Infernal Affairs has cultivated. But I think it arrogant of a person to believe that subtitled viewing is every bit equal to that of native listeners. Arrogant to believe that those translations fully captured the intricacies of meaning that, at times, would have required annotations in a footer. By the way, some fan-subbed anime do this and I think it really helps but it really is too obtrusive to utilize in a cinematic production.
I showed Infernal Affairs to a non-Chinese speaking friend of mine and she noted that without my commentary on what was actually said she would not have gotten as much out of the film as she did. "Lost in translation" describes the situation perfectly. The subtitles just
I'm expecting a stranger who happens to stumble on this blog whilst looking for an article about "The Departed compared to Infernal Affairs" to either cheer or think me a jackass due to those natural psychological factors I pointed out at the beginning. I'm hoping those of you who have followed me for a while will know me better than that.
What do you guys think of me doing a sort of watch-along for Infernal Affairs? I would basically do what I did for my friend: expound on the intricacies of what they actually said or didn't say, cover the gaps between subtitle and translation. Sadly, those two are not always one and the same. I'll be using the DVD edition and it's subtitles so I'll be able to provide reliable timestamps and you can vicariously watch it with me, where-ever you are! Watcha think?
The idea seems interesting. I watch foreign films quite often, might have to add Internal Affairs to the list.
ReplyDeletePerhaps the Departed, too. :P
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I think it's a good idea, sure, but would work better doing the movie. Kinda like features where directors talk over their movies but with someone to explain the pieces that get lost in translation. In the end the people that would really get something out of it are the curious fans.
ReplyDeleteYou raise some excellent points. No doubt there is always some meaning lost when watching a film with strictly subtitles. I'm lucky that my grandmother taught me some Cantonese when I was growing up, I'm nowhere near fluent and still need English subtitles because I have a 10 year old's vocabulary, but I have a good enough grasp of it to tell when a line of dialog has been poorly translated.
ReplyDeleteI think your watch along idea is a very good one and I would definitely follow it.
go ahead! let us know how it goes :D
ReplyDeleteI think that would be good, and maybe do a bit of a write up to for those that miss it lol. I do agree with you though that sometimes subtitles can and do miss things. I've watched enough anime to pick up on a few things, and sometimes I find myself watching things, and translating things in my head a bit different from the subtitles, but hey, I could be (and probably am) massively wrong in my own ones lol.
ReplyDeletethat is a really good idea. there are always gaps in movies and not just through the translation!
ReplyDeleteThat's a great idea, actually. How exactly would you do it?
ReplyDeleteI've watched both of them ( We viets watch a lot of hongkong movies) and I prefer the departed. The plot and characters of the Departed is more cool and realistic IMO
ReplyDelete@AllenTesch: Ideally I would have wanted to do it in a voice-over style but I don't have video software that would let me do that easily. I think what I'd do would be to post a timestamped list of annotations like so:
ReplyDelete11:45 - Yan actually says such and such.
1:13:37 - Lau says this to Wong, not this.
Something like that.
Never saw either movie, but I agree with you on the subtitle thing. One of my favorite movies is The Seven Samurai which is in Japanesse with English subtitles and not being able to speak Japanesse must always read the subtitles and it deffinitly affects how I enjoy the movie. I know I would enjoy it more if I could understand Japanesse!
ReplyDeleteAlso the subtitles in general can be falty due to the fact they sometimes put up two peoples diolauge and you can read it and once done reading it the second person hasn't said there line yet but you've read it already so as you look at their face you're confused by their expression then they talk and no subtitle and you realise they're now saying what you read five seconds ago!
And about getting mad when people hate what you like, although people do take it as a slight against them (which they shouldn't) I think it bothers you cause you understand something they don't. Which is a legit reason to be mad!
Well, its an interesting idea! :D
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I'm sure, that subtitles are worse than being able to understand it without them, but that's kinda obvious I think.
ReplyDeleteI think that's a good idea. I need to watch it first though, cause I don't wanna have it "spoiled" without seeing it before. I only saw departed and I liked it. I was glad, that they killed Damon at the end. I like happy endings. :)
From your last post about this it's obvious, that it doesn't happen in original, huh? Well, I'm curious about how different the two are. Original is often way better.